The Embers advice thread

[Jihad]

Still taking the new job?

[Embers]

Have been offered more money to stay

Tell them how much more they offered you, ask for a promotion along with a pay rise. Now they are on there knees begging make sure they polish your shoes before they get up

[yeah_nah]

Tell them how much more they offered you, ask for a promotion along with a pay rise. Now they are on there knees begging make sure they polish your shoes before they get up

Yeah I told him what they offered and he immediately said he will pay me more.
Basically also said theyre grooming me for manager role too hence why they want me to stay

Really have to weigh up pros and cons but this gon' be tough

[Embers]

Yeah I told him what they offered and he immediately said he will pay me more.
Basically also said theyre grooming me for manager role too hence why they want me to stay

Really have to weigh up pros and cons but this gon' be tough

Say fuck the grooming im ready and willing to go now. See what he says to that. Say you want the managing job within a year or something. Put the heat on, you can afford to be testy so do some testing

[yeah_nah]

For anyone that cares I'm going to stay where I am, not 100% sure if its what I want but I don't know that leaving is either.
Basically been told if I stick around they see me as partner material and will help fast-track me there (will still take a while, but youngest partner at my work was made partner @ 28, which is pretty good)

That means good money, probably better than what I'd be getting in any industry unless I was in senior management (very unlikely from the career path I'm going down). In the short/medium term money will be fairly similar but either way I'm looking at a 20k+ payrise (winning)
I have asked for more responsibility (client contact basically) which they have said I will definitely get. Also have been told I will be doing a lot less compliance work and more business/tax consulting etc which is the area that interests me more.

The shit thing is it took for me to hand in my letter of resignation to get to this stage. and obviously telling the other company I don't want to accept the offer will be shit, but thats life.

Genuinely think its a decision I couldn't win or lose out of. No matter what I choose the other will be in my mind but at the end of the day no matter what I choose I have pretty good options for my career.

Feels good getting this shit off my chest, genuinely the hardest decision I've had to make in my entire life.

[r dub]

For anyone that cares I'm going to stay where I am, not 100% sure if its what I want but I don't know that leaving is either.
Basically been told if I stick around they see me as partner material and will help fast-track me there (will still take a while, but youngest partner at my work was made partner @ 28, which is pretty good)

That means good money, probably better than what I'd be getting in any industry unless I was in senior management (very unlikely from the career path I'm going down). In the short/medium term money will be fairly similar but either way I'm looking at a 20k+ payrise (winning)
I have asked for more responsibility (client contact basically) which they have said I will definitely get. Also have been told I will be doing a lot less compliance work and more business/tax consulting etc which is the area that interests me more.

The shit thing is it took for me to hand in my letter of resignation to get to this stage. and obviously telling the other company I don't want to accept the offer will be shit, but thats life.

Genuinely think its a decision I couldn't win or lose out of. No matter what I choose the other will be in my mind but at the end of the day no matter what I choose I have pretty good options for my career.

Feels good getting this shit off my chest, genuinely the hardest decision I've had to make in my entire life.

How big is the company you're at atm? Top 10 in accounting services? Personally I think you should go with the mining company, the group is one of the biggest miners in the world. My mate was in a similar position to you when he resigned (BDO), the company told him he would get faster career profession/ he wouldn't want to get stuck at middle management in the other company etc etc but he left and was much better off for it. At the end of the day they are saying this shit to get you to stay (see you as a partner) but it isn't really guaranteed is it? (besides the payrise obv). Put yourself in their position wouldn't you say anything to keep you knowing you wouldn't have to deliver on some things?

Once you've worked in this mining company you probably have a better shot at the Rio, BHP, Chevron etc etc and I reckon it looks better on your resume having experience in a number of firms rather than just one.

My two cents.

Mad props btw, jelly.

[yeah_nah]

Genuinely think I am partner material and think they think that way of me too, they took me in at 17 years old and seemed to want to have someone come in at a young age so they could grow them into a partner (it is what happened to the youngest partner). its not a big firm at all btw, small chartered firm.

Also how does your friend know he was better off leaving? Doesn't know where he could be if he never left and IMO tells himself he's better off because its what he wants to believe. Genuinely no way of knowing.

Also the senior partner (who i work under) drags in close to half a mil per year and all the others I assume 200k+
The potential to get to that level of earnings in my lifetime is a hard thing to turn down.

[r dub]

Genuinely think I am partner material and think they think that way of me too, they took me in at 17 years old and seemed to want to have someone come in at a young age so they could grow them into a partner (it is what happened to the youngest partner). its not a big firm at all btw, small chartered firm.

Also how does your friend know he was better off leaving? Doesn't know where he could be if he never left and IMO tells himself he's better off because its what he wants to believe. Genuinely no way of knowing.

Also the senior partner (who i work under) drags in close to half a mil per year and all the others I assume 200k+
The potential to get to that level of earnings in my lifetime is a hard thing to turn down.

Each situation is different I guess, if you truly believe you could be partner at one stage then stay on. How does that work anyway, as in how many can there be? Does one have to leave for you to get a crack?

As for my friend, at the time there were a couple of other people that had the same predicament and two stayed on while he left and have yet to be promoted at all while he is already making more money than them after his first year, although I'd bet quite a lot on him being a director one day, dude is just a beast in every job he has had. But yeah I know of a few people who have been promised things for them to stay on only to be disappointed.

archiemoses Narkee et al probably have some good advice here, after all I have no actual experience/first handknowledge of how accounting firms work

[yeah_nah]

A partner doesn't necessarily have to move on for me to become a partner, but all depends on the size of the client base I guess.
Our firm is looking to purchase more clients soon too, which opens up a lot of options. Also all the partners are about 50 besides one, chances are they will be retiring when I'm at an appropriate level.
Then there is also the option of me starting my own firm if I want to head down that path.

Also just because they tell you one thing doesn't mean it will happen automatically. Very aware how hard Ill need to work if I want to get to that level.

big fuck you for putting doubts in my head though

[archiemoses]

yeah_nah

Mate I was a manager at a Big 4 when I made the move. When I resigned, my boss (one of the partners) who I was really close with was gutted. He was like I took you under my wing, I saw so much of myself in you, you get it, I want you to stay, you can be a partner, blah blah. I genuinely felt bad as my boss was awesome and we had a lot in common so I could see where he was coming from, plus I was on a lot of his jobs, and we knew how each other operated and shit would just flow.

Anyways, my mind was made up moving into commerce, I was sick of practice and audit, it was a shit job. Yes you get variety and deal with senior people, but I was sick of the hours and pay.

I moved into commerce with a 50% pay increase (no shit!) work 8-5 and get to work in O&G where my interests are.

I decided that I didn't want to be a partner, I saw how much they worked and I was like fuck that.

[r dub]

yeah_nah

Mate I was a manager at a Big 4 when I made the move. When I resigned, my boss (one of the partners) who I was really close with was gutted. He was like I took you under my wing, I saw so much of myself in you, you get it, I want you to stay, you can be a partner, blah blah. I genuinely felt bad as my boss was awesome and we had a lot in common so I could see where he was coming from, plus I was on a lot of his jobs, and we knew how each other operated and shit would just flow.

Anyways, my mind was made up moving into commerce, I was sick of practice and audit, it was a shit job. Yes you get variety and deal with senior people, but I was sick of the hours and pay.

I moved into commerce with a 50% pay increase (no shit!) work 8-5 and get to work in O&G where my interests are.

I decided that I didn't want to be a partner, I saw how much they worked and I was like fuck that.

Do you feel you as if the guy would have fulfilled his promises? How long did it take you to become a manager at one of the big 4?

[yeah_nah]

So much doubt.

I think our situations are a bit different as you were already at manager level and I haven't even started CA yet. I think I will at least do my CA where I am and then after that can re-evaluate what I want.

Was it hard finding a job in O&G - did you have experience doing O&G stuff with KPMG?

Honestly if my other job offer wasn't in resources I would've turned it down already after being hit with teh counter-offer

[archiemoses]

Do you feel you as if the guy would have fulfilled his promises? How long did it take you to become a manager at one of the big 4?

I was a manager just before 5 years, which is fairly standard progression. I always had good performance ratings so when it was my time to become a manager it was simply a formality. I was the only one in my year group left there (not including others on LT secondments ~2), so I was 'home grown' and they valued that highly.

Each Big 4 have different promotion timings and ratings. I know EY do it a bit quicker, like you will be a manager after 4 years. One guy I went to uni with is a senior manager now (after 6ish years) and I didn't think he was that smart.

Back on to r_dub's question about the promises. There were at least 3-4 partner spots in audit opening up as there were that many partners retiring in the next 3 years. However, there were plenty of senior managers ahead of me that had been there for more than double the time I had, so realistically there was not going to be a spot for me in the next 6 years.

The shit thing about the Big 4 (well my firm in particular) is that you need approval from head office for any new partner positions. You can't just offer the spot, there needs to be a business case. The business needs to be growing for those opportunities to arise and in audit in particular, there is so much pressure of fees that it is extremely hard to grow organically through audit fee revenue. Fees were actually going down because the Big 4 just under cut each other in the tenders. It is ridiculous. You need the big anchor clients like Wesfarmers, but those audits rarely come up for tender. The only way you 'win' them so to speak is through your clients making acquisitions. I.e. CBA buying BankWest etc.

So as much as the partner said I could be a partner, there are a number of considerations like who is in front of me, number of positions likely to become available, head office's view on org structure etc. Even worse is that promotions may be even less likely over east and head office could easily fill our partner vacancies with eastern states senior managers if they can't get a gig over there.

At the end of the day I weighed this up. But I was much more interested in working in commerce, running my own company, being the head honcho. My plans are to get some experience here and then move to a smaller company. Head up the finance side. Play golf twice a week.

[r dub]

Great post mate , reppage.

[archiemoses]

So much doubt.

I think our situations are a bit different as you were already at manager level and I haven't even started CA yet. I think I will at least do my CA where I am and then after that can re-evaluate what I want.

Was it hard finding a job in O&G - did you have experience doing O&G stuff with KPMG?

Honestly if my other job offer wasn't in resources I would've turned it down already after being hit with teh counter-offer

I think it is important that you get your CA. That is a prerequisite for most positions, otherwise you are restricted to grad positions. That would be my advice.

Was it hard finding a job in O&G? Well, it was the first job I applied for and I managed to get it, so I was lucky. I had only minor experience with O&G, it was a small listed producing gas in Italy. Not akin to the size of where I am now.

It is just completely different man, but I did serious time in audit before making the move, thus I was able to move into a decent role in commerce.