Random Thoughts (Part II)

[KaLL]

Hipster Runoff. It's a hipster parody website, think that article you posted missed the point

My article was from GOOD Home Page - GOOD ?

[Damon_3388]

can you pls let it die



Indie / alternative music is no longer about musical style or how independent you are. Its about who you market yourself towards. Regardless of the quality of lana del ray's music (which i don't think is that bad, certainly better than some of the stuff thats out in the mainstream but not to my taste) what i've always tried to argue is that Del Ray is inauthentic in a music scene that tries to despise inauthenticity.

Whilst i have my strong criticisms about the indie music scene aswell, one can see the appeal in targeting your music towards that group. It's massive - sales will be great, its alot easier to break into than the mainstream scene, and it brings with it critical acclaim.

So in essence, what i'm saying is that Del Ray's management have targeted her image and music at the alternative / indie scene. They do this through album production - certain elements like the orchestral pop arrangement and the glam, hip hop and surf influences... but most importantly through who they mail press releases too, and their marketing campaigns.

Video Games was released on youtube with what appeared to be an 'independently' made video, featuring an old and retro look. The video would have been posted in the correct forums / music circles and then it took off.

Finally, if Lana Del Ray is not marketed as an 'indie artist', and i am completely off hilt like you say i'd like to ask why there has been such a controversy surrounding her image. There are many artists in the mainstream who are completely manufactured. Madonna, Lady Gaga, Beyoncé, Rihanna, Britney Spears are all the product of intense image manipulation - and then you can also see male artists like David Bowie, 'Bono' and 'The Edge' (or Paul and David by birth) who haven't receive any criticism for their similar image manipulations. I'd argue that's because such things have become a staple of mainstream music... Whereas the controversy arises with Lana Del Ray due to the fact it brings into question the integrity of the indie music scene and shows that it's making steps towards assimilating with the mainstream.

Ye.

[KaLL]

Ye.

Good to see 'intellectual' damo attempting to act as if he doesnt care

[Embers]

Theres fuck me boots but why isnt there fuck me shoes/sandals/high heels. Someones missing out on a ton of cash here

[Big Sledge]

Sounds like a good thread idea:

Places you've slept while drunk

http://www.thisisafl.com/forums/f21/...78/#post237050

[Damon_3388]

Good to see 'intellectual' damo attempting to act as if he doesnt care

TBH, I really don't. Music is just music to me. I just like what I like, and couldn't really give a shit whether something has 'indie cred' or anything like that. There's too much pretentious wankery involved in worrying about that sort of stuff.

The only reason I've continued to engage you re: Lana del Rey is because I simply can't see what's so "Indie" about her, and you answers of "it's obvious" weren't enlightening me in any way.

I still don't see how she has been obviously marketed to the "Indie crowd". In fact, I haven't noticed much marketing from her end at all. She just seems to have put herself out there one day, and the The Internet (Pitchfork, YouTube, blogs, etc.) has done the rest as far as creating a buzz, an image and a perception of her. It just so happens that the "Indie set" have chosen to focus on her (rather than her on it), and that's what is making her an "Indie darling", nothing she or her management have consciously done herself. I think someone like Lady Gaga shown much more independent thought in constructing who she is, and has done far more to appear "out there" and "alternative" with her image and music, than Lana del Rey has, but Gaga is considered the epitome of "pop" today, while del Rey is somehow oh so chic and "Indie".

[KaLL]

TBH, I really don't. Music is just music to me. I just like what I like, and couldn't really give a shit whether something has 'indie cred' or anything like that. There's too much pretentious wankery involved in worrying about that sort of stuff.

This is always a cop out on this forum "i just dont care that much"

Neither do i, but i do enjoy debating it.

The only reason I've continued to engage you re: Lana del Rey is because I simply can't see what's so "Indie" about her, and you answers of "it's obvious" weren't enlightening me in any way.

And yet when i present you with a fleshed out answer, you respond with 'Ye.'

[r dub]

Is there a sport where the pre-match entertainment to the final is actually worth watching?

[Bert1]

Is there a sport where the pre-match entertainment to the final is actually worth watching?

Maybe a chess tournament?

The pre-match entertainment would have to be better viewing than the contest itself.

[James Pattinson]

The NRL Grand Final normally has good pre-game entertainment.

[FOREVERtrumbone]

Is there a sport where the pre-match entertainment to the final is actually worth watching?

[Damon_3388]

This is always a cop out on this forum "i just dont care that much"

Neither do i, but i do enjoy debating it.

I'm not trying to cop out of anything. That part wasn't specific to this argument, but a general comment on the whole concept of "being indie". It's just such a pretentious wank most of the time.

And yet when i present you with a fleshed out answer, you respond with 'Ye.'

But you proceeded it with "please let it die", as though you didn't want a response (or just had to have the last word).

Anyway, I'll humour you and address some of the points you made in your "fleshed-out answer":

Indie / alternative music is no longer about musical style or how independent you are. Its about who you market yourself towards. Regardless of the quality of lana del ray's music (which i don't think is that bad, certainly better than some of the stuff thats out in the mainstream but not to my taste) what i've always tried to argue is that Del Ray is inauthentic in a music scene that tries to despise inauthenticity.

Nobody is saying the "indie scene" has to like her. They've chosen to give her airtime and create the fuss around her, by debating her "authenticity" and so on. All she did was put a song out.

If the "indie set" see her as "inauthentic" (as I've said, I couldn't really give a shit about such things, as long as the music sounds good), then why don't they just forget about her, or dismiss her as "manufactured" like they do with so many other artists? What's the big deal?

Whilst i have my strong criticisms about the indie music scene aswell, one can see the appeal in targeting your music towards that group.

If you want to limit your appeal to a select group, yes.

Where can I purchase this "Indie for Dummies" handbook, anyway?

It's massive

Pop music is still king in terms of chart success and record sales.

sales will be great

The highest selling albums of 2011 came from Adele, Lady Gaga, Justin Beiber, Rihanna, etc. There was next to nothing on Pitchfork's top 50 albums of 2011 list featured especially highly on the charts or in sales counts.

its alot easier to break into than the mainstream scene

No it's not. The "indie set" is a far more fickle group with what they do and don't like than mainstream music fans.

and it brings with it critical acclaim.

Critical acclaim doesn't mean shit in terms popular radio airplay or record sales these days. Most of the stuff at the top of the charts is rubbished by most music critics. Popular music criticism is as good as dead.

They do this through album production - certain elements like the orchestral pop arrangement

Something that's been a staple of mainstream pop music since Phil Spector was in his pomp.

glam

What, like Lady Gaga? Glam has been a part of the mainstream since Ziggy-era Bowie.

hip hop

A basic hip-hop beat behind a couple of songs does not make one "indie".

but most importantly through who they mail press releases too

There weren't any press releases or interviews "setting things up" before the indie crowd started talking about her. They're the ones seeking out information on her as far as I can see.

and their marketing campaigns.

What, like the ad I saw for her upcoming album in prime time on Channel 7 the other
night?

That's the only marketing I've seen for her BTW.

Video Games was released on youtube with what appeared to be an 'independently' made video, featuring an old and retro look.

I think you're clutching at straws a bit here, and tailoring your reading of the video to fit your argument.

The video would have been posted in the correct forums / music circles and then it took off.

The video was posted on Youtube (using the Internet to debut new work is as common as anything these days, established artist or not), and then re-posted and discussed on various blogs and forums after that. As I said in my last post, the indie crowd caught onto her and chose to discuss her. All she did is put the video out there.

Finally, if Lana Del Ray is not marketed as an 'indie artist', and i am completely off hilt like you say i'd like to ask why there has been such a controversy surrounding her image.

Again, it's the websites and the bloggers that have "created" her image, and engagaed in the debate surrounding her image. She didn't seem to do anything aside from posting a video on Youtube.

There are many artists in the mainstream who are completely manufactured. Madonna, Lady Gaga, Beyoncé, Rihanna, Britney Spears are all the product of intense image manipulation - and then you can also see male artists like David Bowie, 'Bono' and 'The Edge' (or Paul and David by birth) who haven't receive any criticism for their similar image manipulations. I'd argue that's because such things have become a staple of mainstream music... Whereas the controversy arises with Lana Del Ray due to the fact it brings into question the integrity of the indie music scene and shows that it's making steps towards assimilating with the mainstream.

If del Rey is supposed to be (as so many say) some record company fabrication (and I'm not debating whether she is or isn't), then someone like Lady Gaga is technically far more "indie" than she ever will be. Gaga gigged for years all over NYC before getting a recording contract, and she writes and produces her own music, and has meticulously constructed her own image and a "world" that surrounds her from the start. As I said in my last post, Gaga's ideas and image are far more "out there" and "alternative" than anything del Rey has done so far, but Gaga is considered the epitome of "pop" today, while del Rey is somehow oh so chic and "indie".

[r dub]

Never ever posting anything Lana del rey related again.

[James Pattinson]

r dub

[THE ROCK]

Jesus Christ. Is Damon related to Kiss_Stephanie? Multi quote cluster fuck.